'That Ain't Right!'

To be fair, while I’d love to see a gay or lesbian character on Supernatural, it is unlikely this character would be recurring.  There are only two regularly recurring characters on Supernatural: Sam and Dean Winchester.  Everyone else is just passing through.

Comment by Meredith Milewicz — March 23, 2007 @ 1:20 am

Just to play devil’s advocate here, do you think it’s possible that some of the ads mentioned aren’t intending to defame homosexuals so much as point out the silliness of overt male heterosexuality—i.e. some guys are so insecure they’ll go to inane lengths to make sure they come off straight? The silliness of the uber-male has been a recurring theme recently in other commercials that don’t even bring homosexuality into the picture (Old Spice is the one that really pops into my head).

Obviously, it’s a hazy area and maybe one that should be avoided as these commercials are sending mixed signals. For instance, I wasn’t offended by the Snickers commercial so much, but now knowing about that alternate version showing the football players makes me question the intentions of the ad folks.

Again, I respect your opinion and your feelings. I’m just considering another side for the sake of argument.

Comment by Dave from Austin — March 23, 2007 @ 9:24 am

You need to do better research.  Not only did Babylon 5 have two lesbian/bi-sexual characters (confirmed by the show’s creator J. Michael Straczynski), one was the female lead! 

The lead female character, Cmdr. Susan Ivanova (played by Claudia Christian) had a lesbian affair with the regular-supporting character, Talia Winters (played by Andrea Thompson [NYPD Blue]).  You need to view the episode “Divided Loyalites,” for the “moment of truth” as it were.

Comment by Europa — March 23, 2007 @ 10:59 am

I’m not certain that you have your Desperate Housewives facts correct.  The pedophile on preyed on boys, but I don’t recall any mention of his being gay.  The show also has a non-molesting (but not exactly perfect) recurring gay character in Bree’s son, Andrew, who has been shown making out with other men and dealing with his mother’s homophobia.  And Marc Cherry - the show’s creator - is out.

Comment by lingereffect — March 24, 2007 @ 5:56 am

Michael,

First of all, minor TV-reference gaffs aside, I think this was a very eloquent and thought-provoking article.  I, myself, took the Snickers ad as a dig at the absurdity of American masculinity (which I thought was supported by the location and profession of the characters—auto mechanics aren’t (stereotypically, of course) known for their liberal societal views), but was that how the commercial’s message was intended?  Maybe not.

Whether one agrees with your thesis, the supporting evidence is enough to make you think.  And though homosexuality (especially in males) has been seemingly crawling into mainstream culture’s acceptance, it’s crawling forward—not backward.  And for some people, I understand it’s not fast enough, but I find solace in the fact that at least some of our American cultural ideals are moving forward.

A very good article; I especially liked the part about the MPAA.

-marc calderaro-

Comment by marc calderaro — March 24, 2007 @ 12:47 pm

The MPAA bit is by far the most disturbing thing to think about in your essay, and sadly, it’s not really news. That our institutionalized ratings systems are still soooo homophibic (especially when the feeling or activities depicted, are, as the MPAA says, “involving teens) is pretty alarming. Certainly, the pressures of jackass religious conservatives are to blame. If the MPAA allowed real sexual feeling into films without the comercial penalty of a stiffer rating, they’d never hear the end of it from those assholes.

Seems to me that homophibic jokes should be what the MPAA really takes seriously. What to use “fag” as a punchline? Fine, but that’ll give you an automatic “R” rating. Could you use “nigger” as a punchline in a PG rated film? Why should kids casually be able to consume one kind of prejudice but not another? The point of the ratings system is to keep them from harmful influences right? Well, it seems like casual homophobia is a lot more harmful than depictions of realistic sexuality.

Comment by jamie — March 28, 2007 @ 4:35 pm

I’ll have to agree with most of the posts above that perhaps the author of the original piece took his interpretations of persecution a little far.  I think also, as a minority myself, that something far more general has to be added here.  I am the son of a Native American father, who lived on the Akwesasne Mohawk reservation.  I have had enough in many ways, and I now live in New Paltz, one of the epicenters of the already cooled down gay-marriage controversy, of the complaints of racism coming from the American homosexual community.  Genocide?  What the bleep do you know about it?  Are you ignorant of history, or just stupid? 33 million of my people were slaughtered, given blankets full of small pox and ripped away from our homes.  This country is built on land stolen from all of the various tribes.  Even today, reservation life is still set up by the BIA(Bureau of Indian Affairs in Washington, DC) with the express purpose of keeping us hidden, of educating our children in the white man’s exclusive history to the expense of our own Culture, and to keeping us poor and subservient.  Even the casino deals are offered only to divide us away from our Culture, and are offered, because some of you might not know this, in exchange for tribes giving up valid land claims.  According to numerous treaties all over the States, that the white man lied about, but are still signed, existent documents, we own a lot of the land that many American cities and states are built on.  Mount Rushmore is, according to a legal treaty, a purposeful defacement of Paha Sapa, the most sacred mountain of the Lakota people, land that still legally belongs to them per the treaty.

Should we talk about the experiences of African peoples, who built the infrastructure of this country as slaves?  Even here in New Paltz, where gay marriages were supported, there is still a fight with the local historical district who has falsely said for decades that “oh no, our ancestors treated their slaves well, that is why many of them styed on long after slavery was abolished in New York State.” The actual evidence for this is supported as well as the constant cover-ups among the same historical society that the old houses of their precious white ancestors have been archaologically proven to be built on the remains of an Indian village that had been there for at leat 600 years, and whom they presumably killed, since no mention now is available of even the name of their particular tribe.

How about the treatment of women in the overall society?  Yeah, if anyone with any brains is reading this, I don’t think I need to elaborate any further.  The “Cleveland Indians” still have “Chief Wahoo” on their uniforms, African people still have an uphill battle to regain some vestige of real Cultural Identity for those that live in the United States that probably doesn’t lie in the ethic of “street rep” and “bling” that is just a distorted image of their white oppressors or just in modern terms, the Republican party, and women don’t get any respect at all.

In the midst of this, you are going to complain about the “racism” against homosexuals?  Has it occurred to you that if all of the peoples I have mentioned, who are a fraction of what we could talk about, recieve the treatment I have outlined, that homosexuals don’t have a chance in hell of even getting a hint of fair treatment?  In many ways, homosexuals get better than some other minorities.  You have shows like the “L-word”.  You have communities, even if they are limited, supporting issues like gay marriage, and indeed it became a nationally discussed issue.  When Syd Hill, Tadadaho of the Onondaga Nation brings a law suit up about a legal treaty that the government has broken and ignored for decades now that gave almost a third of New York State to the Onondagas, where now they live in a tiny tract of worthless, nigh unlivable land, there is no national debate, there is NOTHING.  When people like Cornell West speak for black people, they are not heard, but 50 Cent is revered as a role model.  Women have no strong intelligent voice talking about their REAL issues at all.  So excuse me, but what the hell is your problem?  At least your issue is getting press.  You have not experienced the unending reverbrations of genocide, in fact, you do NOT know what it is, and have no right to even allude to it at all.  Incidents like the Matthew Sheppard torture and murder are reprehensible and terrible, but in fact, despite a lot of what we’re told now and believe, you CAN compare some things, and the violent acts against gay people in this society in no way measure up to the pain and loss and destruction of cultures and races of people who are wiped from all human memory in true genocide.  Imagine 10,000 times Matthew Sheppard, and you might get the Trail of Tears, and that’s just a drop in the ocean of treachery and mass murder.  Yeah, so what I would expect from the author is an apology for even mentioning such things as “racism” and “genocide”, because they do not apply to you.  I do not say that you do not have a fight for recognition and equality before you, and I support you in it, but you do not help the people that complain about the “whining gays” when you put your argument in this kind of context.  I suggest you rethink your method of reasoning about things.  If you really want equality, why don’t you help the rest of us really oppressed people first, and then decide what “racism” really is?

Comment by FellRider from New Paltz, NY — April 6, 2007 @ 8:53 am

to the fell guy from New Paltz—is this the only way you can get your clearly out of context, confusing, convoluted rant published?  in the comments field? 

HA! HA! HA! HA!

Comment by Anais from Paris — April 20, 2007 @ 11:03 am

Yeah, what he [ Anais ] said.

Comment by Europa — April 20, 2007 @ 11:25 am

I argue that the current cultural and popcultural focus on the discrimination against gays and the protests against such discrimination only serve to obscure the real issue of discrimination vis a vis such issues as genocide and racism.  If the problems with Native Americans and African descended peoples have not been addressed up until this point, and the gay discourse takes the place of resolving these already festering issues, then no progress is made for anyone.  Convoluted, perhaps, to those used to writing their unsubstantiated opinions in less than a paragraph with no reasoning argument to back it up.  The gay debate is part of a larger discourse on overall racism.  If it is treated as something seperate, then it DOES become a fracturing influence...As for recent attacks on me and my motives, I take it as a compliment that I have made certain people feel unsafe or uncomfortable in my stance on these issues, although I am dissapointed that none of these people seem to have the capability to explain why I am wrong or to fully understand my argument, apparently only using bits and pieces that are either all that they comprehend given their own limited perspectives, or that in this one paragraph, text-messaging utopia, that nobody now has the attention span to read or think about an argument that does not include moronic abbreviations and mono-syllabic language.LOL...Putting an actual article up on this site, or just discussing one really are no different.  The argument and the discourse that follows that necessarily will reveal some truth if it is argued well on all sides is the measure of value of the discussion.  I have no problem being wrong, but you must explain to me why I am.  That is my interest.

Comment by FellRider from New Paltz — April 23, 2007 @ 7:31 am

Geeshhhh.  Well, I guess the time has come for the mod to shut this puppy down.

Comment by Europa — April 23, 2007 @ 3:47 pm