When you have an established sound and a devoted, ever-growing fan base like Joyce Manor, the thrill of creating is finding the sweet spot between avoiding repetition and staying true to the sound that endeared them to fans who revere records like 2014’s Never Hungover Again, now considered a classic of the genre. Surprisingly, that record wasn’t an instant sensation. Pop-punk fans can be a fickle lot, clinging to that one record that introduced them to the band and deeming the rest “Not as good as [insert canonical release here].”
“Never Hungover Again reviews were just okay when it first came out,” explains lead singer/guitarist Barry Johnson. “I remember playing [opening track] ‘Christmas Card’ live, and no one was singing along. People were still stuck on our first record.”
Bassist Matt Ebert agrees. “It took people a couple of years to come around to [Never Hungover Again follow-up, 2016’s] Cody.” “
“People still don’t seem to like [Cody follow-up, 2018’s] Million Dollars to Kill Me,” Johnson laughs. “But, ‘Big Lie’ is now one of our most-streamed songs.”
Regardless of how long it takes for fans to get excited about their latest, I Used to Go to This Bar, the band’s punchy, lean pop-punk is in fine form. Johnson’s vivid snapshots of scenes are as potent as ever, and they pack many memorable melodies into just under 20 minutes. Regardless of where listeners jump into the band’s discography, they will find a track that makes an instant connection. For me, it was the classic sound of “I Know Where Mark Chen Lives” and the surprising early track “All My Friends are So Depressed”.
The band collectively shake off any notions of catering to fans when writing new material, but is mindful of how those songs will fit into their canon. “Our fans expect that each record will be a little different,” bassist Matt Ebert says.
“We want to try to do something new each time, but we have also gone too far out there, too,” Johnson shares. “I’m always thinking about how we’re going to have to play these live next to our other songs, so that is a consideration. Of course, not everything has to be played live, or maybe we decide to play it differently, but the aim is to do something new without straying too far from what a Joyce Manor song is.
Another aspect of this is that fans listen differently now. Songs that didn’t land at first can become fan favorites later. The band understands that and acknowledges that release-day listening is tough for them, too.
“Bands in our scene can have songs from a decade ago that blow up on TikTok. It can take me months to get around to listening to a new record lately, even from a band that I love,” Ebert shares.
“I often have the experience where I tell a friend that I love a record I just heard, and they’ll tell me the band’s made three records since,” Johnson laughs.
The title track is the song that created momentum this time. “That one set the tone for the album. The lyrics are my favorite, too. I’m always happy when we can pull off a sad, fast pop punk song,” Knobbe says.
Johnson agrees, “It’s cool to have a song that feels like we could have written it at any point in our career. Listening to the rough mix is one of my favorite moments of recording this record.”
This time out, the band tried to focus on working together in a room, rather than passing files back and forth to write the record. “The last song we did together was ‘I Know Where Mark Chen Lives’. We just kind of jammed on that. It happened in this organic way, like at a band practice. It was visceral and exciting. I want to spend more time doing that, which is how we used to do things in the early days,” Johnson shares.
Knobbe agrees that together is better. “When Matt’s stoked, too, we know we are onto something. Sometimes, when Barry and I just work together, we need to be reeled in. The drummer also came up with some different parts that really unlocked the song.”
Johnson adds, “Million Dollars to Kill Me‘s ‘Big Lie’ was the result of jamming. The drummer at the time played this kind of funky drum part as a joke, but we loved it and kept it in. It’s become one of our most-streamed songs.”
I Used to Go to This Bar marks the first time Joyce Manor worked with Brett Guerwitz, owner of their label. The band was excited to work with him, of course, and they liked how he pushed them to take some risks and to trust his instincts.
“Of course, we have been Bad Religion fans since we were kids. But the way Brett carries himself in the studio, it just felt like we were working with someone from our label. He works fast and keeps the energy up, which is great. He’s focused on what’s going on now, rather than reminiscing about other records he worked on. One minute he’s DoorDash-ing candy, and the next he’s coming up with a vocal arrangement,” Johnson says.
Guerwitz’s candy habit created one of the funniest memories from recording. “He ordered a bunch of candy bars for us, and I couldn’t eat more than two. He looked at me and said, ‘Come on, guys. I used to smoke crack.’ I recorded some of Rancid‘s Life Won’t Wait while I was strung out,” Johnson laughs.
“He does all this without guitars, too,” adds guitarist Chase Knobbe. “Working with him was when it really hit me how many records I love he’s had a hand in. It was exciting to hear him doing things I remember from other records.”
“Brett pushed us to record cleaner guitar sounds for these songs. Distorted songs are fun, and sometimes that serves a song, but with Brett we learned a lot about being more tasteful with guitar tones. We used a lot less gain than in the past. As a result, the record sounds a lot bigger,” Johnson shares.
One song where Guerwitz guided the band to a new peak in the studio is “All My Friends are So Depressed”, a different shade from the band. Johnson wanted to make the chorus more traditionally pop punk, but Guerwitz lobbied for restraint. “The melody and verse are pop punk. I wanted it to rock more in the chorus, but he convinced me that it already felt that way because of the way it was written. It sounds more tasteful because we had someone wiser than us giving advice,” he explains.
Johnson was tangentially inspired by Lana Del Rey, or at least his sense of her aesthetic. “I haven’t listened to much of her music, but I took the same themes of her songs and turned those into a 1970s, shag carpet and bongwater, suicidal desperation vibe, with the dishwasher overflowing and warped wood floors. It’s a very American thing in my head. Hanging out in a basement and wanting to die,” he describes.
Joyce Manor will always be Johnson, Knobbe, and Ebert, augmented by drummers. They have no interest in finding a permanent drummer. “We have been together for almost 20 years now. It makes sense to do it this way,” Ebert says.
“Brett helped us get some amazing session drummers. David Hidalgo, Jr. and Joey Waronker played on the record, along with our current touring drummer. Jared is going to go on tour with us. He’s impressive,” Johnson notes.
Next up is sharing I Used to Go to This Bar with the fans and a March tour, but for now, Joyce Manor is happy with the record and its mix of signature sounds and stretch moments. They’re still pushing themselves just far enough outside their comfort zone to keep things interesting, and still trusting that fans will catch up in their own time. Whether listeners latch onto the title track on day one or discover “All My Friends Are So Depressed” years from now through some algorithmic twist of fate, the band seem unfazed. Joyce Manor have never been about instant consensus; they’ve been about longevity, honesty, and songs that reveal themselves slowly but stick around for good.