Ryan Keberle is a virtuoso trombonist with a huge stylistic range. He is a jazz composer and improviser, but also a master interpreter of styles beyond mainstream jazz. Reverso, an international chamber ensemble he co-founded, transforms European classical music. His band Catharsis includes vocalist/guitarist Camilla Meza. He has toured with indie rocker Sufjan Stevens, and the band Collectiv do Brasil, a quintet that features a rhythm section from São Paulo, mixes contemporary jazz with Brazilian music with depth, fresh perspective, and broad appeal.
The band’s new album, Here Is Donato!, interprets the music of João Donato. Donato, who died three years ago at 88, was a contemporary of the bossa nova masters such as Antonio Carlos Jobim, but his music goes further. He was inspired by Cuban music, played with salsa giant Eddie Palmieri in the United States, and helped create the music known as “MPB”: Música Popular Brasileira. MPB followed the development of bossa nova and, in many ways, reacted against it.
As Ryan Keberle explains in an extensive interview (below), MPB was not unlike the rock revolution in the US—building on the tradition that came before it while also breaking thrilling new ground.
Here Is Donato! Presents a bit of MPB reverse jujitsu, with four jazz musicians taking MPB classics and filtering them back through a jazz lens to create ten examples of that songcraft and rhythm as inspiration for hip improvisation. Check out “Não Tem Nada Não” (“It’s Nothing, Really”), which was co-written by Donato, Eumir Deodato (the pianist and producer mainly known in the US for scoring a top-ten hit in 1974 with his jazz-fusion version of “Also Sprach Zarathustra”), and Marcos Valle for Valle’s album Provisao do Tempo.
The funky, syncopated bass line of the Valle recording is front and center, unchanged, with Felipe Silveira’s electric piano playing hip off-beats beneath the deceptively simple melody “sung” by Keberle’s trombone. When Silveira begins his improvisation, he shifts to acoustic. He comes at the tune from harmonic left field—using modern jazz harmonies MPB didn’t necessarily contemplate, and it sounds great.
Educate me a bit on Donato and Música Popular Brasileira, or “MPB”.
All the repertoire of our band, Collectiv do Brasil, is drawn from the seminal composers of the MPB era. They were established artists during the bossa nova period, and MPB was a reaction against bossa nova. This is kind of like what happened with bebop—the music of Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie—in American jazz. As great as it was, there was rebellion against it. Folks were feeling that way in Brazil in the late 1960s, and they sought to strip some of the jazz complexity out of the music. Many still loved jazz, but they were looking to push music into new territory.
The true culmination of MPB was the 1972 album Clube da Esquina by Milton Nascimento and Lô Borges. They didn’t feel the need to reject the sophisticated harmony of bossa nova. They were trained and knew all the music, but they created a new sound that sold millions and was very influential. This album and its aftermath actually maintained Brazil’s sophisticated songwriting tradition, which reminds me of the Great American songbook.
João Donato and many of MPB’s founders were actively playing in the bossa era. Donato formed the popular Seu Trio, including drummer Milton Banana, an important “samba jazz” creator. Samba jazz was concurrent with 1950s bossa nova but was more upbeat and high-energy. It had a lot in common with American “hard bop”. For example, one of my favorite records by alto saxophonist Cannonball Adderley was Bossa Jazz, which was essentially samba jazz. When I play Donato’s music, then, I feel like I’m playing music by Horace Silver. The Seu Trio was trying to create music that combined sophisticated rhythms and harmonies with accessible melodies.
With the subsequent rise of MPB, the vocalist was now the star. Almost all of Donato’s songs have two titles, one for the instrumental version and another for the vocal. Donato collaborated with the star vocalists of MPB: Valle, Gilberto Gil, and others. As I have worked on this music, I always look to the lyrics as well as the instrumental compositions. At some point, Donato himself started to sing as well.
I tend to think of this music as similar to the Beatles in that it was a new kind of pop, but with harmonic sophistication and a new groove. So it works for improvisers like your band, and it stands the test of time.
We are trying to find and share with the jazz world new ways to hear Brazilian music. Sometimes we don’t have to do much to turn these into songs to play “jazz” on. Donato’s music lends itself to the typical head-solos-head jazz form. Our last album, 2025’s Choro das Águas, was based on songs by Ivan Lins (for his 80th birthday) and didn’t offer the same opportunity, as his songs are more elaborate.
This is a band of Brazilian musicians, but they all feel like jazz players too. Tell us about that overlap.
They are all dual-language musicians: Felipe Silveira on keyboards, Felipe Brisola on acoustic and electric bass, drummer Paulinho Vicente (drums), and percussionist Guegué Medeiros. All of us have made careers straddling different bands and styles, often at the same time. They are Brazilian but are deeply trained and immersed in jazz, and I am deep down the rabbit hole of MPB!
For example, these guys—all in their early to mid-30s—are based in Sao Paolo but grew up watching live streams from Smalls Jazz Club in Greenwich Village, New York. The pianist and drummer will say, “I am a jazz musician”, playing Oscar Peterson music and going deep in the swing. Meanwhile, they know thousands of Brazilian tunes and make their living touring with Brazilian pop acts. They aren’t conservatory-educated in jazz like US players, but they are fluent in different jazz traditions and across styles.
They play it all, just as I love gigs playing New Orleans jazz, Maria Schneider compositions, or bebop. We all connect that way — on a highly technical level but also on an emotional level. I consider myself a jazz musician. But how do you define “jazz”? My favorite definition is: jazz is music played by jazz musicians. It’s not just about improvisation; it’s about fluency, listening, and how you express yourself through the instrument.
This band has a very sophisticated understanding of rhythm on both sides. Like most jazz, this music is all in 4/4, but the syncopation is still really deep, and the hardest thing for non-jazz musicians to get right is the swing feel. It is almost impossible to teach the rhythmic nuance. It’s very personal and physical.
Brazilian grooves often do have a clavé bass line, related to the music’s African roots. Even without it, there are things that define the cycle of the groove, the phrase length. It requires deep listening and years of practice to match that tradition.
How did you choose the music from Donato’s vast catalog of songs?
My process for all these albums has been to listen to everything these folks have recorded. I do a deep dive to hear all the versions. I usually end up with a list of 20 or so of my favorites. I don’t necessarily know which were the big hits. Some are so popular that my Brazilian bandmates can’t stand to do them again! But my goal is to teach jazz musicians this wider Brazilian repertoire.
The band shares the arranging duties now. I try to let my instincts take over. I try to approach it as if I’m writing an original composition. I’ll change a harmony or tempo. But I love MPB because the music had genius arrangements with great counterlines. It was popular music, and the musicians had huge budgets and big orchestras. It is rich with possibilities.
Let’s talk about some of the tunes on Here Is Donato! The opening track, “Tema Teimoso”, sounds very much like a 1960s Cannonball Adderley groove—the funky jazz of that era.
Exactly. This first appeared on the album Muito à Vontade (1963) by Donato and the Seu Trio. The title translates to “A Stubborn Theme”. This comes out of early 1960s Rio de Janeiro, right in the thick of bossa nova’s formative years.
“Nana das Águas” is a groover that really puts the electric piano front and center. Donato recorded his version in Los Angeles for the Blue Thumb label?
Yes. This originally appeared on the 1970 album A Bad Donato, as the song “Malandro” with Ron Carter on the bass! That’s also the source for “Celestial Showers”. A Bad Donato has a psychedelic, astrology-curious feel that matches the fact that it was cut at A&M Studios in Los Angeles with a crew of American jazz players like Bud Shank, Ernie Watts, and Jimmy Cleveland alongside Brazilian expats like Dom Um Romão and Oscar Castro-Neves.
“Nowhere to Go, Nothing to See” is one of your compositions. It is a slow, mysterious blues that contrasts a bass line with a compelling melody. But the groove is certainly Brazilian. How is a groove like this taught or notated?
When it comes to grooves, while I might explain it, I defer to them!
“Ê Menina” was written by Donato and recorded by Gilberto Gil — a funky thing with those beautiful vocal harmonies. You have the bass playing the melody, with the trombone coming in on the release/chorus.
This track, from Gil’s 1975 album Lugar Comum, was one of Donato’s first big vocal hits. The new album also includes the album’s title track, which translates to “A Common Place” but was originally titled “Indio Perdido” when performed as an upbeat samba in 1965. Donato slowed it down for his 1975 version with lyrics, and our version slows it all the way down! The lyrics were written by Gilberto Gil after he returned from exile in London. The song frames the “lugar comum” as both a starting and ending point, suggesting the ordinary becomes extraordinary when viewed with introspection and a connection to nature.
“Até Quem Sabe” is my favorite “song” here, with a set of harmonies that are tried and true, but Silveira voices very beautifully on piano. Then the second section lets your horn play over that comfortable vamp. This tracks the original recording almost exactly.
This was originally recorded as an instrumental called “You Can Go”.
“Até Quem Sabe” was Lysias Ênio’s (Donato’s younger brother) very first recorded lyric, written in partnership with his brother, and released on the LP Quem É Quem in 1973. The album’s closing track is also on This Is Donato!: “Cadê Jodel?” It is a sad song written in tribute to Donato’s own daughter. The lyrics speak directly about the distance between them. The track is dedicated to the musician’s daughter, with lyrics by Marcos Valle, who also produced the album. The lyrics made Elis Regina cry, but the music is upbeat and not at all mournful, like some of Sufjan Stevens’ music.
You are balancing three or more bands as a leader, plus you play in other bands. How do you do it? Talk about the career of a creative musician right now.
For me, it is part of the practice to move back and forth between different bands, different contexts, and different traditions. The band I co-lead called Reverso just recorded an album of Debussy’s music, so I wasn’t listening to Brazilian music for a while.
There are some drawbacks to moving around this much. I don’t compose as much because I want to play the repertoire. But the arranging and reimagining can be just as satisfying as composing.
Each project is an outgrowth of the eternal student in me. I love to immerse myself and feel new kinds of music, but, I prefer to compartmentalize the styles. My bandmates in Collectiv do Brasil are some of my favorite musicians in the world. They could each be huge successes in New York. This project is about my love of songwriting, going as deep as possible into their histories, songs, and melodies. I sing it, write it, and play it on my trombone.
Speaking of the trombone, Donato’s tenure as a trombone player for Palmieri has to be noted, though it isn’t what he’s famous for. How does that figure into you playing his music?
I learned about his trombone playing after getting immersed. Once I found out, I wasn’t surprised. So many great composers/arrangers are trombonists: J.J. Johnson, Bob Brookmeyer, Nelson Riddle, Glenn Miller. The instrument tends to play the non-melodic parts in arrangements and carries the notes that define harmonies—the thirds and sevenths. A trombonist sits in the middle of the band and hears what everyone else is doing. There may also be a financial aspect; the trombone is not a first-call instrument, so developing compositional and arrangement skills can be good for a career.